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by macsenior08 from Irving

Last Post 242 days, 22 hours Ago


High School Free Speech Case Goes Before Federal Appeals Court Last Edited: Wednesday, 05 Mar 2008, 5:49 AM CST Created: Wednesday, 05 Mar 2008, 5:49 AM CST or just enabling jstl so that we can just write ${bean.property} and jsp takes care of the new lines. -->By The Associated Press

NEW YORK  --  A federal appeals court has heard arguments in the free speech case of a Connecticut teenager, who claims officials at her high school improperly barred her from serving on the student council because of what she wrote in an Internet blog.

 

The lawyer for 17-year-old Avery Doninger of Burlington, Conn., told the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday that officials at Lewis Mills High School should not be able to regulate students' off-campus free speech, including Internet postings.

The school's attorney argued that education officials should have the right to act if a student leader makes offensive comments about the school on the Web.

Doninger wrote disparaging comments about school officials on an Internet journal from her home computer. School officials last year barred her from serving as the Class of 2008 secretary.

The appeals court did not issue a ruling Tuesday.

 

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My opinion is that the school should have NO say over what their students say in their homes or on their personal sites. School is school and at school officials have actual power. Anywhere else they need to learn that they do not rule over the students that attend their school. This girl was expressing her own opinon and had the right to!

On fox4 I've said certain things about my school that could probably be taken as offensive to the officials, like saying that my school has become a prison to the students and that traditions have been thrown out the window by new admins. Does this mean that I could be taken to court? Free speach was given to us in the Bill of Rights, something they teach at schools. Maybe the officials should go back to highschool and get a better education and get over themselves. I can garuntee you that over half of these officials have made derogatory remarks about the students.

Who's with me on this :). Let me hear it.

Macsenior08

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terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 10:24 AM

that's not such an easy answer. there are some kids that put up myspace pages with extremely vulgar things on it and surely you wouldn't want that person to be a representative of your school. on the other hand there has got to be a cut off because of freedom of speech. what do the parents of you and your friends say?

fish_breath read my blog
Mar 7, 2008 | 10:30 AM

I may be wrong. but aren't athletes and cheerleaders held accountable for their actions off of school grounds?. it may apply to student council members as well. if you are representing a school in any fashion. The school should be portrayed in the best fashion possible. The right of free speech has not been taken from her, only her right to serve on the student council. mabye the school will cave in under the pressure, mabye not.

P.S. your remark about school officials making demeaning statements about students is most likely true. I'm not saying what's happening is fair. it's not. but such is the way of the world sometimes.

macsenior08 read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 10:41 AM

Even if I was on student council or a prominent athlete I would still have the ideas and opinons I have now and I wouldn't let the school decide what I can and can not say. I feel sorry for this girl because she just wanted to be on student council which represents the students, not necessairly the school. It's wrong that they took her off because of stating her own opinon.

And Fish, I know that what they do is the way of the world but does that make it okay? You're right, it's not fair. Students should be respected. We are asked to be respectful towards the very people that demean us and it's sad.

luvmykid read my blog
Mar 7, 2008 | 10:54 AM

I agree with you, Mac.

I think that a persons personal life, is just that. And, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You are also correct in saying that most students who run for council are there for the students, not so much the school.

If we went by what everyone that represents something in this country, then we would not be able to have anyone in office or anywhere for that matter.

We all have had our "bad sides".

Another thing, you are correct in saying that teachers bad mouth students. I know this for a fact from serving on the PTA.

So, what makes them okay as teachers if they do this?

UCantHandleThisTruth read my blog
Mar 7, 2008 | 11:55 AM

The courts have ruled in the schools favor before.

Heres the problem, and your talking to a freespeech overlord here, the school is a self contained institution like an airplane.

But more importantantly, children are the "passengers" on this ship.

Therefor the same rights dont apply.

Having said that AND THIS IS KEY:

It is ONLY the government that falls under the auspices of not being allowed to censor AND THE SCHOOLS ARE GOVERNMENT RUN.

So, technically, the governemnt CANNOT CENSOR.

If its a private school, then the school wins.

If its public then the government cannot win

terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 12:27 PM

mac, pardon me but thats like saying a preacher doesn't represent God only the parishiners.

would you want the president of your student body posting pictures on my space with cucubers stuck up her..well you know..for all the world to see ? or maybe it's a he and thinks it's cool to show pics of himself with 3 women all naked and personal? that's what you would want the public to see and therefore think of yall as a whole student body?

scottythecomic read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 3:32 PM

Why cucumbers, TM? lol

This is hard for me to say because I don't know what the content of her speech was. Certain things have limitations. While we can holler all we want, we cannot holler "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

Klutzy2508 read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 5:20 PM

We can, Scotty, but the consequenses wouldn't be pretty. Not to mention the charges. Can anyone say "Wolf"?

To your blog, Mac. We hold people accountable for what they say, period. Just look at the bounty hunter, who have made derogatory statements regarding race, and the consequences he faced. Michael Erwin, is another case in point.

I've heard of several people, who have written unkind things on their MySpace pages, and they've lost their jobs. What makes this any different?

We hold athletes accountable for the things they choose to say and do, in representing their teams. It gives the team a bad image, if they do, or say, something that is racist, or bad mouth the team.

If we're representing a certain company (and the school would be the company) and the company found out that their representative (the student would be the representative, in this case) was demeaning them, behind their back, what is the difference? Why should they tolerate it?

Yes, you're opinion is your opinion, but you don't have to publish it, for the world to see.

TexasTruBlu read my blog view my photos
Mar 7, 2008 | 9:34 PM

Here's the deal-I have no problem with students expressing disdain or dislike for teachers, rules or any of that. I DO very much have a problem with cyberbullying, which has resulted in some serious consequences. If students insist on carrying disagreements on outside of school and acting upon them with fights or worse in school, the the school needs to know in much the same way that they need to know if a gang is planning any sort of disruption. You may not like it, but then again, would you be as upset if say the guy who killed all those kids at his college had posted his ideas and been stopped before it happened? If everyone was highminded and pure in how they acted, this wouldn't be an issue, but you know as well as I do that there are students who actively seek to cause problems for teachers and other students via their webpages. School is NOT a democracy, it's a benevolent dictatorship. We act for your good because you are underage. You can rail all you want, but this isn't about what's good for just you or any individual, it is about what is safe for the entire student group.

terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 8, 2008 | 3:16 AM

makes me wonder what ever happened to school pride. when i was young we did things to make our school look good, we all had pride in being a Kaufman Lion :), it wasn't about individual rights, it was about what we can do to make our school as a whole look better.

I feel sorry for most of the teachers today, they have to try to teach, babysit, be the disciplinarian, food monitor, hall monitor, bathroom police......etc, all because kids are not taught respect for others or for themselves. there are parents who don't let their kid stay home when they are sick because the mom/dad doesn't want to deal with the kid because they are soooooooooo bad. they prefer to leave the raising of their kid to the teacher of the year. it's screwed up

scottythecomic read my blog view my photos
Mar 8, 2008 | 6:09 AM

Supreme Court Justice Oliver W. Holmes wrote this opinion with regards to the 1st amendment and the fire shout I alluded to earlier, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent. Hope this helps.

macsenior08 read my blog view my photos
Mar 8, 2008 | 8:09 PM

TM... Times have changed. I once loved my school. I thought my school was the best in the country and most kids at my school thought the same. But obviously you have chosen to believe the officials in matters like this. Many adults and parents choose to believe admins because they think that kids will lie to get out of stuff. First off, you have no idea what it's like at some of these schools. You say you feel bad for the teachers? It's partially their fault for the kids not wanting to be there. I know that I have teachers that don't appreciate their jobs and I know admins that look out for the smallest indescredions on the students part and take out their anger on the students. And yet you feel bad for them? Think about it from another point of view because it's not all the kids faults. And what is that stuff about the Myspace and cucumber. That was unnecessairy and frankly rude, I personally don't know any student that would put up such a picture, especially any student council members. That frankly was shocking.

And Trublue you said "School is NOT a democracy, it's a benevolent dictatorship. We act for your good because you are underage. You can rail all you want, but this isn't about what's good for just you or any individual, it is about what is safe for the entire student group." First off, nothing about dictatorships are ever benevolent and secondly who is to say that the decisions that the officials are making for us are the right ones? Again people usually pick what the officials want over what is good for the kids because they don't either 1. believe the kids

macsenior08 read my blog view my photos
Mar 8, 2008 | 8:10 PM

complaints or 2. they think that the officials know what is best all around.

Students, even though they are kids, are still people. They deserve their rights. If people have the right to burn the American flag and hold racist riots and yet no one is attacking them. Why all the focus on an upset student

AGodthing read my blog view my photos
Mar 8, 2008 | 8:42 PM

Sooo what DID she say on her blog??

ChatterBug read my blog view my photos
Mar 9, 2008 | 12:09 AM

i agree with the school....if it was truly a bad statement. if you represent your church, your company, your school, your family, your race or whatever it is you put on display to represent, then you are held accountable for your actions, or in this case words. that is the real world. that is real life. it's easy as a kid, young adult or immature adult (not meaning that negatively) to think they have the right to say and do...truth is, even if you own your own company, you always have someone else to answer to...always. kids do not have the years of experience behind them...i was once a kid myself...and so was every other adult. we do know what it is like. and looking back on sooooo many things, mama was right and i was wrong. my daughter is on the drill team, and she is held accountable for her actions out of school...she represents the team, the school, the town, and most importantly, she represents her family.
just because you can type whatever you want on this blog, and we have freedoms to do so, does not mean fox will allow us to do it...think about that.

terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 11, 2008 | 3:59 AM

mac if you don't know kids that would post a picture like that you are the blind one...heck, i'm old and i know kids that would do that. you are living in a dream world where the kids and their parents are great and the teachers are bad...wake up and realize these kids treat teachers like second class citizens. if you don't like your school, tell mommy and have her home school you or move you to another. all you have done on these blogs is gripe about your school and then get angry at the adults who don't agree with you.

tell mommy to step up and back you. i know when one of my children have a problem at school, i too am at school the next day to take care of it. kids have rights but so do the teachers. try respecting your elders for a change

terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 11, 2008 | 4:00 AM

I have to laugh when you say "That frankly was shocking" You have soooooooooo much to learn

macsenior08 read my blog view my photos
Mar 11, 2008 | 6:50 AM

I don't respect my elders??? BS TM! I have done nothing but show respect for my elders... or at least the ones that have shown respect for me. And I don't live in a 'dream world' I live in the real world. Not everyone is horrible and you seem to put everyone in the same class. You've become statistical and stereotypical. And my "mommy" knows exactly how I feel thank you very much but I have less than 3 monthes until I graduate and really there is nothing I can do without harming my education in someway. You have no idea what goes on at my school or any of the other schools in my area. You are just a mom that hears information through things like your elementary kid or PTA and frankly those don't sound like very good sources. I get angry not with the people that don't agree with me but with the people that are too ignorant to accept the fact that it's not all the kids fault. People blame the kids because they are easy targets because they don't ever defend themselves. Kids in my classes don't "treat teachers like second class citizens" unless they act like them. Most kids are mature enough to know how to act and the ones that you are talking about are a few bad ones out of the whole bunch that you assume the rest act like.

When I say I dont know anyone that would post pictures like that it's because I don't. Believe me I've heard about these pictures you and other adults say exsist but as far as the people at my school go, I've never seen anything like that. Maybe you are thinking of some sick adults who like to act out and be immature but don't compare me and the people

macsenior08 read my blog view my photos
Mar 11, 2008 | 6:51 AM

I know to to them. Honestly I think you are the one that has so much to learn because you are the one that seems to be stereotyping and stereotyping is just ignorance.

terrellmom read my blog view my photos
Mar 11, 2008 | 7:08 AM

I wish you well in the future, you need all the help you can get

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macsenior08

I live in Irving and I am a senior at MacArthur High. I'm very opinionated and I like to speak my mind about a lot of things.

Member Since: 11/5/2007